a rival to the popular bittorrent file-sharing utility is apparently in development at the redmond giant's cambridge, u.k. studio. the application is known as “avalanche,” and it's thought to build on the system bittorrent created.
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bittorrent works by splitting a file into parts and allowing people to download those individual parts until they have the full file. the system works because the software ensures that the person downloading is also sharing the file; thus, the more people connected to the network with the file you want, the quicker the download is probably going to happen.
one problem microsoft believes it has solved is the “rarest bit” issue. bittorrent always looks for the rarest chunk of a download to get next, meaning the download goes as slow as it takes to get the rarest chunk of the file. with avalanche microsoft uses a more intelligent system of tagging chunks, allowing them to be made available out of order and reassembled by the software later. the system just downloads the next bit it finds rather than doing an extensive search for the rarest chunk first.
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bittorrent has been hit with allegations that it promotes easy distribution of illegal files, and many of its hubs have been closed down (see our previous coverage). microsoft has come up with a solution to the piracy problem as well, whereby a file will only be made available over avalanche if it has a publisher's certificate attached confirming that it is a legal file.
for the record, bram cohen, bittorrent's founder, takes issue with the concept and approach of avalanche as outlined in the microsoft research paper (pdf), calling it “complete garbage.”.
read more at media center pc world and the register.
matthew's opinion
bittorrent has been receiving a lot of attention from the mpaa, making a genuinely useful and innovative piece of technology look bad. it was inevitable someone was going to try to reinvent the system as it is such a brilliant way of sharing files and making the best use of bandwidth.
bittorrent has been receiving a lot of attention from the mpaa, making a genuinely useful and innovative piece of technology look bad. it was inevitable someone was going to try to reinvent the system as it is such a brilliant way of sharing files and making the best use of bandwidth.
so, will avalanche be as popular as bittorrent? certainly not with those people who share movies, music, and illegal software, but it should be a big hit with legitimate online businesses that know the network will only be trading legal content. there are a host of websites that use bittorrent to enable movie clip downloads, for example, and it is possible they will switch to avalanche when it is released.
the one thing that could prevent this, however, is if microsoft decides to charge to use it. if the company did that, bittorrent will stay on top regardless of its problems.
user comments 41 comment(s)
another great design(12:19pm est tue jun 21 2005) coming from cambridge – by uk rules! |
cohen's article…(12:33pm est tue jun 21 2005) …was a great read. sounds like a buncha m$ guys who left their paper till the night before… – by johny-d |
only partly new(12:43pm est tue jun 21 2005) does microsoft ever create something of its own? they buy or steal 85% and tweak the the rest and put their name on it. – by rcaman |
thinking is a wise man world(1:10pm est tue jun 21 2005) ideas make somebody to be what he want. if microsoft can think, than we the fool one sale his product to ms-cooperation and not utilize his own gift. please ms-continue your gift. – by by godwin frm nigeri |
avalanche be as popular (1:10pm est tue jun 21 2005) bittorrent has been receiving a lot of attention from the mpaa, making a genuinely useful and innovative piece of technology look bad. it was inevitable someone was going to try to reinvent the system as it is such a brilliant way of sharing files and making the best use of bandwidth. so, will avalanche be as popular as bittorrent? certainly not with those people who share movies, music, and illegal software, but it should be a big hit with legitimate online businesses that know the network will only be trading legal content. there are a host of websites that use bittorrent to enable movie clip downloads, for example, and it is possible they will switch to avalanche when it is released. – by possible |
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microsoft's quick fix(1:17pm est tue jun 21 2005) bit torrent is open source. i'm sure if someone who want to solve that “rarest bit” problem can easily implement it. besides, it seems that microsoft just did a “quick fix” to that problem by getting the easier bits first. i can see why bit torrent program want to find the rarest bit first. it's because if such rarest bit doesn't exist, the downloading will still be small. user can abort the downloading without feeling pissed. on the other hand, if the downloading is almost done ( possibly what microsoft's avalanche will do) and waiting for that non-existing rarest bit, it gonna be heart breaking to just delete it, especially those who have a limit to how much they can download/upload. – by tsubasa |
rarest bit first is better(1:25pm est tue jun 21 2005) bittorrent looks for the rarest bit of a file to download first because once a user has downloaded that file, they can upload it to more users. this makes downloads go faster as more people get access to rare bits and then they can upload them to more users. – by yellowrage |
good luck ms(1:28pm est tue jun 21 2005) i don't think the average p2p user will fall for avalanche… just another case of too little, too late! – by j3rb4l |
can you say fud?(1:51pm est tue jun 21 2005) i knew you could. – by random surfer |
lol(2:00pm est tue jun 21 2005) “so, will avalanche be as popular as bittorrent? certainly not with those people who share movies, music, and illegal software, but it should be a big hit with legitimate online businesses that know the network will only be trading legal content.” so the answer is no, then. the only reason p2p exists is piracy took it to the top of the mountain, much like the only reason the web exists is people like p0rn. let's be realistic about this. unless microsoft includes free p0rn for every download, this software will go nowhere. – by cynical bastard |
3 tries(2:20pm est tue jun 21 2005) remember it takes m$ 3 tries to get software right, so don't discount the eventual impact. but i doubt that it will ever be better than 'good enough' – by slammer |
microsoft (2:22pm est tue jun 21 2005) if microsoft copy's my files should i make them pay a license fee.or should i check to make sure the bit torrent is legal.or check to see if they didn't rip off some ones else bit torrent program. lawsuit. – by apple |
microsoft does it again(2:47pm est tue jun 21 2005) meetings at microsoft: anybody got any new ideas? no ok are there any companies we need to buy? no ok any open source ideas that we can exploit and twist to make it look like it was our idea. bittorent you say?? sounds good, get the legal boys to look and see if we can sue them for ip infrigement. if not get the marketing guys out there to bad mouth bittorent. see you all next week. – by camper x |
weee(3:09pm est tue jun 21 2005) what about encrypting the file to be shared then encapsulate it and then re encrypt it. before attaching a certificate….hmmmmm – by newxploits |
re:matthew(4:34pm est tue jun 21 2005) i would submit that if it were not for the illegal files (software, movies and smut), bittorrent would be totally useless. please, pray tell, what possible use would the average user have for a p2p client, if not for trading in illicit goods? patching windows? virus/advert/spyware definitions? game demos? the facts are pretty simple. people use bit torrent for illicit purposes, as the legal purposes are few and far between. ms is wasting time and energy, as i can not think of a reason why anyone would want/need their product. – by hodar |
good reads(5:41pm est tue jun 21 2005) good read on the pdf. network coding is very interesting. microsoft could have a nice way to dump patches more efficiently. oh no, ms and efficient… i'm sure ms will figure some way to totally bugger the hash. good insight on how bittorrent works. – by zeke New tamil full movies download. |
bittorrent has more use's (6:51pm est tue jun 21 2005) then illicet gain. just because you cant see them doesn't mean they don't exist. game demo's? yep, anarchy online use's bittorrent(okay, not a demo, but it's a game), as have a few other games i have seen over the last year or so. i'll give you this, bittorrent is not a very popular program outside of piracy, but it is there and it is growing. tsubasa, bittorrent doesn't kill your download if you cancel of close the program. you can pick up from where you left off from. bittorrent is an awesome concept, and once the coparate world takes a hold of it, whether bittorrent or avalanche, it will become a popular program. – by metzzz |
typical microsux(8:37pm est tue jun 21 2005) thieve and clone and profit from the sheep. – by baaabaaaa |
to the whining naysayers(8:49pm est tue jun 21 2005) or, for our uk friends: whingeing naysayers … you're very quick to jump all over derivative works — even works which don't even exist yet. if it's so easy and cost-effective to come up with fabulous new things which have never been seen before, why don't you get off your duff and come up with something? i'm sure the world will beat a path to your door/website. i mean, you're obviously so much more brilliant than anyone at microsoft, judging by your comments. – by feh! |
re:feh!(9:23pm est tue jun 21 2005) “if it's so easy and cost-effective to come up with fabulous new things which have never been seen before, why don't you get off your duff and come up with something?” i did and microsoft tried to put me out of business. – by netscape |
it's all wavy gravy to me!(10:14pm est tue jun 21 2005) ^^^ – by chris mccaw |
still, some good reads(10:46pm est tue jun 21 2005) the more i read, the more fascinated i am, (with my own ignorance). i am consistently and constantly entertained. from brams blog – —————– “in practice data loss rates are extremely small, so trying to engineer for the case where there's a link which is lossy when there's no congestion is attacking a straw man. a more interesting question is how to make congestion control utilize as much of the available bandwidth as possible without overdoing it, but even that can at best at best a fixed percentage increase, and not a very large one.” ~and~ “engineering for more than six nines is nothing but intellectual masturbation” —————- the pdf, while nice, lacks real world comparison, lacks current information on bittorrent, and so (i hate “thus”) – greatly misrepresents advantages of the vaporware known as avalanche. tit for tat never was viable and was killed shortly after birth. how did this paper pass peer review? – by zeke |
funny(10:52pm est tue jun 21 2005) the guy who wrote bittorrent is calling avalanche total garbage. what a pathetic whiney sh*t. i cry for his mother, she must be dissapointed in her sons life failure…. – by not an idiot |
idiot(2:28am est wed jun 22 2005) avalanche doesn't exist. it is vaporware. what ms announced was a “research report” analyzing something they thought was bittorrent. they also announced they think they can build something better than what they were analyzing, and some of the things they would do. bittorrent is a protocol, not a program. lots “programs” implement the bittorrent protocol. bran writes and maintains the reference platform for the protocol. others have built on his work and made it even better. it always amazes me when people confuse protocols, architectures, and programs. it shows how poorly qualified they are to comment – or whine – or crticize. now, since they didn't really analyze bittorrent (and i don't know why, it is totally open), how can they say they can do better? a careful analysis of the ms research report shows that what they were looking at was the “state of the art” about 5 years ago. i'm sure they can do better than that – but the art has already moved ahead by 5 years now. can they do better than what exists now? here, dvorak says it better than i have: – by oldfart |
you guys are missing one thing(7:13am est wed jun 22 2005) ms is laughing at you! you actually think they would publish information about technology that is current?? hahahaha… they are like the air force in this regard, anything you hear about their tech is old news. – by fools |
re oldfart(7:15am est wed jun 22 2005) wasnt bittorrent derived from an older cluster server protocol, based on ip but never realy implimented in the enterprise??? i think ms just wants to be able to include some version of drm so their buddies in the riaa can screw anyone for a slight indiscresion or for having just part of the code on their pc. no need for the whole application of tune just a string that matches their's if you think about this a bit( pun intended) it could be quiet bad. code is duplicated in various applications…after all there is only a finite number of ways to wright any thing including machine instructions. – by egadz |
uses for bittorrent(8:49am est wed jun 22 2005) 1. linux distros 2. large oss apps (neooffice just went official with 1.1) 3. podcasts 4. video podcasts Wwe svr 2011 compressed pc iso download. 5. creative commons media and maybe coming soon… 6. limited-use movies (i wonder if this last is feasible. if so, it might be part of the reason behind ms's fud campaign against bittorrent, and its rush to 'create' a rival in order to extend its monopolies.) – by psionfan |
egadz(2:54pm est wed jun 22 2005) “wasnt bittorrent derived from an older cluster server protocol, based on ip but never realy implimented in the enterprise??? “ not really. it does have some architectural resemblences, but the same could be said about raid technologies. both have the idea of “spreading the data across many redundant sources”, but the bittorrent protocol goes way beyond that. it was a starting point in the development of the protocols, easy idea to grasp (which is why most people latch onto it), but the final implementation goes way beyond this. yeah, i think drm is a big factor in the reason ms is doing this. they have been playing the “keep the mpaa and riaa happy” game for quite a while now. i suspect these organizations have put big pressure on ms because bittorrent has the potential to bypass all the drm stuff ms has been adding to their products. total end run around all that “protection”. the fact that bittorrent has many, many, legitimate uses means it can't be suppressed by the legal system. so they have to kill it some other way. – by oldfart |
for the fool(3:16pm est wed jun 22 2005) i'm not going to get into a discussion about how much you or i know about the “current” state of ms technology. but the fact of matter is that it does not matter in the least what ms knows or doesn't know, if you can't have it. bittorrent is out there now. it is current state of the art. what ms has “announced” is way behind the current art. it will not be able to slow down adoption of bittorrent with this kind of announcement/report. no, i think dvorak has it basicly right, even if he has not have gone far enough in his analysis. as i stated above, i think this is just a “quick shot” response to pressure from some organizations that are hanging their hats on drm. a chance for ms to say to them “see, we are doing something”. doesn't have to be technically advanced. doesn't have to actually do what they claim. all it does is satisfy a bullet on a presentation chart. and oh, the “fools” are the ones that believe ms has amazing things in the backroom “just waiting to come out”. the comparison to the military is bogus. the military actually has this kind of stuff in production, and can still keep it secret. not so with ms. think about it. – by oldfart |
thanx(3:21pm est wed jun 22 2005) oldfart its refreshing to actually get an intelligent answer. – by egadz |
netscape(10:16pm est wed jun 22 2005) no, they didn't. you put yourself out of business. even when you tried to flank microsoft by giving away your browser (as they were), everybody went with internet explorer, because it was a better, simpler, less bloated browser at the time. – by feh! |
cpu time…(2:23am est thu jun 23 2005) …. me not sure… but from reading the ms paper, their protocol will use *lots* of cpu time to reconstract the files. you will need duel-core cpu just to download the next naruto – by some random idot |
growl…(1:16pm est thu jun 23 2005) its math, right. p=product o=original company m=micro$4it $=$$ m _ +p = m(-o+p2) = m($2) o theres a formula to go with that.or something… nevermind. drugs are bad kids. “never offend people with style, when you can offend them with substance.” -sam brown – by §ôurcekôde-~> |